LSP Explained

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LSP Explained

Postby Craven Range » Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:11 pm

Lootshare points Explained
By Craven Range

Many people use lootshare, but do we really know what its all about? Hopefully i can explain to you the lootshare system and show how it really works. All observations are by me and are my own opinoin.

The Truth
'LootShare is an entirely optional way for you and your clan to share monster drops in multiway combat areas. The sharing of items is fair, and is designed to ensure that everyone receives an equivalent value of rewards over a period of time. Alternatively, your clan can activate CoinShare to receive high-value drops as cash, which is automatically split equally between all LootSharers.
If you are unlucky enough to receive a small, or less valuable, share of the monster's drops this time round, then you will be much more likely to receive a better share in the future. This way, everyone sharing loot should receive an equal share, given enough time! Note that the distribution of drops is based on the market value of items (as determined by players trading on the Grand Exchange) rather than the shop price."

"When an item is dropped, its value is calculated using the Grand Exchange. Each player is given a 'virtual' share of that value in LootShare points. The system then chooses a player to receive the drop. The system looks at the points for all players in the group and whoever has the most LootShare points stands the greatest chance of getting the drop."

"The person who gets the drop then 'pays' for the drop in those same points, thus reducing the chance that player will get the next drop. So, if someone else in your group gets a valuable drop, your LootShare points and chances for the next drop increase a lot. If they get a less valuable drop, your points increase by less. "

"These points are stored from game session to session, but they will tend towards zero by a percentage every day. "
"
http://www.runescape.com

Facts:
    Lootshare points are based on the grand exchange price of the item Dropped
    You "pay" for your drop in lootshare points
    Your points dimish each day

Some examples:
Ok, so we want to know how lootshare points work. Firstly lets assume three players, Bill, Todd and Fred are budding young monster hunters, about to start their monster hunting career. They decide to go to bandos godwars, on this particular day a Bandos Hilt is worth 30m coins on the g.e, and a Bandos Chest is worth 10m coins on the g.e. They decide to use lootshare as their means of splitting drops. All players have a 0 lootshare score, as they have never used it before.

They enter bandos godwars and the First Drop is a R2H, worth 40,000 Coins. All player recieve 13,333 lsp, As all three players have 0 lsp to begin, they all have a 33% chance of getting the drop each. It just so happens that Bill Gets the Drop. This means he is now at a 0 lootshare points position once again, Todd and Fred now have 13k lsp.

On the second kill they get lucky and recieve a bandos hilt drop! Bill has 0 Lootshare points at this stage, Todd and Fred both have 13k lootshare points. The bandos hilt is worth 30,000,000 coins. Therefore, as the hilt is dropped, each player is dealt 10,000,000 lootshare points for the drop. Now Bill has 10,013,000 lootshare points, and Todd and Fred Both have 10,000,000. This means that Bill has a 33.30% chance of getting the hilt, whilst Todd and Fred have a 33.35% chance of recieving a hilt. It's Freds Lucky day and the hilt so happens to go to him. He loses his 10,000,000 lsp as payment for the hilt.

The third kill and these boys are on a serious lucky streak, as they recieve a bandos chestplate! This is worth a total of 10,000,000gp, therefore Todd, Fred and Bill all recieve 3,333,333 lootshare points. At this stage, Fred who hasnt recieved anything, has 10,013,000 lootshare points, Bill who recieved the R2H has 10,000,000 Lootshare points, and Fred who recieved the bandos hilt has 13,000 points. This means that Fred has a 44.45% chance of recieving the chest, Bill has a 44.41% chance of recieving the chest, whilst Fred only has an 11.14% Chance of recieving the chest.

As you can see, lootshare points move around quite fast, and can drastically affect the chance of recieving a drop. Though that is the case, the larger the drop is, the less affect lootshare points has, as the points are awarded for the drop before the drop is decided on who it goes to, therefore points already in existance are diluted alot. You can see this when looking at Bill who recieved the R2H, even though he has less lootshare points, the bandos hilt is worth so much that it dilutes the fact of Bill missing drops earlier by a great deal, and in the end he only has 0.05% chance LESS of recieving the hilt than anyone else, which is a very small amount.

Real Applications
In a situation like at the corporeal beast, when people yell "GF LSP" when someone used to recieve a regen brace, they were obviously ill informed and pretty stupid. Because the G.E Price of a sigil is so high compared to the 1mil of a brace, it hardly makes a difference to the chance of recieving a good drop when the beast dies, as the 1mil is diluted among the high value of the sigil. On an even playing field if 3 people go that have never used LSP, and someone recieved a Regen Brace, then the Next drop an Elysian Sigil is dropped, the person who recieved the regen brace only has a 0.33% chance LESS than the other two of recieving a drop (33.44% chance of the people getting the drop who didnt get the brace compared to a 33.11% chance for getting the drop from the person who did recieve the brace)

Concluding
So what does this mean for you? Well, no one can actually know their lootshare points, unless they leave them long enough until they are at 0, then record their points as they get them. But really, that is very time consuming and gives no benifit to you actually recieving a drop. The chance of getting a very valuable drop from having more lootshare points is actually very low, therefore lootshare points serve no real purpose before actually recieving a large drop. The only time lootshare points really have any affect is after someone recieves a large drop, as you can see when Fred is there for the bandos chest drop, his chance of receiving the drop is very low, not that he cares because he just recieved a bandos hilt
I hope this helps to clear out a few of the lootshare points myths going around.

~Craven Range
Last edited by Craven Range on Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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LSP Explained

Postby Boa1891 » Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:35 pm

Lootshare points are weighted in such a manner that whoever has the most LSP in a group has a SIGNIFICANT chance of getting the items compared to other players, even on very large drops. I am very sure of this, or else I would not have gotten nearly as many drops as I did leading up to my elixir. My team had a good 20 people, and at least 1/3 of them said they'd missed sigils- Meaning that at least 6 of them had 2M-6M LSP or more, I'd guess. My drops would have been diluted far more- I got around 75% or more of the drops. On top of that, I would have had a lower chance of getting my Elixir.

However, this is a very nice definition and application to help people with little understanding of the system get a better grasp on it.

COME TO THINK OF IT, the person who got the Arcane Sigil I missed was not someone getting a lot of items; Whether it was dumb luck or lootshare works as you described, I don't know. Perhaps I imagined my objection to your explanation.
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LSP Explained

Postby wkw427 » Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:36 pm

Explain how people manupliate lsp =p
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LSP Explained

Postby jin jin5000 » Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:37 pm

nice guide. :D
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LSP Explained

Postby Craven Range » Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:41 pm

Ah boa, i was waiting for you to post as you have a great knowledge of things like this :D
I havn't read anything anywhere on the person with most LSP recieving more drops, maybe its just a placebo affect?

Lootshare points are weighted in such a manner that whoever has the most LSP in a group has a SIGNIFICANT chance of getting the items compared to other players, even on very large drops. I am very sure of this, or else I would not have gotten nearly as many drops as I did leading up to my elixir.


How can you be sure you had the most lsp? I can probably explain this.

Ok you have 1,000,000 LSP and i have 0LSP

A R2H Drops, you now have 1,020,000 LSP and i have 20,000 LSP
You have a 98% chance of getting the drop. When you do get it, you will have 1,000,000 LSP still and i will have 20,000. Each time something drops i only bite off a small amount of your chance to get the drop (as 1,000,000 will overpower MOST small drops by a LONG WAY)
I disagree with what you say on large drops though, as you only received one maybe it was just luck on an even playing feild?
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LSP Explained

Postby wkw427 » Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:43 pm

Manupliation

If Bob, Todd, and Jim go to the beastie, and Bob gets UberDrop1, worth 100m, Todd and Jim each get 33m lsp.
Right after, Todd gets UberDrop2, worth yet another 100m!
Jim gets 33m lsp, making his total 66m. And bob will now have 33mlsp

So, Jim now has 66mlsp.

He is smart and ditches Bob and Todd and goes with a team of 200 people so Beastie dies easy. He has 66mlsp, because he would of gotten 66m in coins has they been on coinshare. So the system "owes" him 66m in drops

He will get the majority of the drops untill he has gotten around 66m.
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LSP Explained

Postby Boa1891 » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:23 pm

Craven Range wrote:A R2H Drops, you now have 1,020,000 LSP and i have 20,000 LSP
You have a 98% chance of getting the drop. When you do get it, you will have 1,000,000 LSP still and i will have 20,000.

In this case, after the drop I would have 980,000 LSP, not 1,000,000.
LSP distributed evenly, then LSP reduced by full price for the reciever of the item. This much I know for sure.

I can actually explain the elixir.
I still had around 9M or more LSP.
Group of 20+, each other person gets less than 1M LSP.
I still have the greatest chance of a drop of all the players, until I get the Elixir, then my LSP gets trashed to 0.
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LSP Explained

Postby Craven Range » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:25 pm

Boa1891 wrote:
Craven Range wrote:A R2H Drops, you now have 1,020,000 LSP and i have 20,000 LSP
You have a 98% chance of getting the drop. When you do get it, you will have 1,000,000 LSP still and i will have 20,000.

In this case, after the drop I would have 980,000 LSP, not 1,000,000.
LSP distributed evenly, then LSP reduced by full price for the reciever of the item. This much I know for sure.

I can actually explain the elixir.
I still had around 9M or more LSP.
Group of 20+, each other person gets less than 1M LSP.
I still have the greatest chance of a drop of all the players, until I get the Elixir, then my LSP gets trashed to 0.


Very true, i overlooked that :oops:
But still, you are only losing tiny chunks :D
Last edited by Craven Range on Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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LSP Explained

Postby Doomedrusher » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:31 pm

Is there any proof that LSP cannot go to the negatives? Jagex is notorious for using signed integers...
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LSP Explained

Postby Craven Range » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:33 pm

Doomedrusher wrote:Is there any proof that LSP cannot go to the negatives? Jagex is notorious for using signed integers...


I have found no evidence.
Also, a negative value would be hard to calculate a % chance? As a probability is always between 0 and 1, therefore it must be positive?
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LSP Explained

Postby Doomedrusher » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:40 pm

Craven Range wrote:
Doomedrusher wrote:Is there any proof that LSP cannot go to the negatives? Jagex is notorious for using signed integers...


I have found no evidence.
Also, a negative value would be hard to calculate a % chance? As a probability is always between 0 and 1, therefore it must be positive?

Maybe LSP goes from 0 to (2^32 - 1) and it tends towards 2^31, the "zero"?
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LSP Explained

Postby ferrariman12 » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:46 pm

<petpeeve>
Craven Range wrote:looses

Craven Range wrote:loosing

</petpeeve>
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LSP Explained

Postby Craven Range » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:50 pm

ferrariman12 wrote:<petpeeve>
Craven Range wrote:looses

Craven Range wrote:loosing

</petpeeve>


Sorry i failed :P
There are plenty of other spelling mistakes too :)
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LSP Explained

Postby Boa1891 » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:52 pm

Doomedrusher wrote:Maybe LSP goes from 0 to (2^32 - 1) and it tends towards 2^31, the "zero"?

DOES NOT COMPUTE

I don't believe LSP can be negative, as mine would still be deep in the red zone and I get an "okay" amount of drops with clan members. Depressingly few, but not too few to make me believe my LSP is/was negative, since a lot of them miss decent drops at Corp Beast.
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LSP Explained

Postby Craven Range » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:53 pm

Boa1891 wrote:
Doomedrusher wrote:Maybe LSP goes from 0 to (2^32 - 1) and it tends towards 2^31, the "zero"?

DOES NOT COMPUTE

I don't believe LSP can be negative, as mine would still be deep in the red zone and I get an "okay" amount of drops with clan members. Depressingly few, but not too few to make me believe my LSP is/was negative, since a lot of them miss decent drops at Corp Beast.


[joke]
I know this has nothing to do with LSP but
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DO NOT COMPLAIN!!!!!
[/joke]

:D
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LSP Explained

Postby Dragonlordjl » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:07 pm

I do believe that LSP can go into the negatives. How else would you explain somebody who gets a hilt on LS missing EVERY drop for a long time. If it merely went to 0, then you would recuperate fairly quickly.
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LSP Explained

Postby Boa1891 » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:17 pm

Not really. Not until someone else got a big drop to even you out.
Remember, everyone else gets the same LS boost as you unless they're getting items. Ratios stay similar with low value items.
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