Jagex's Policy on Merchant Clans

[Esper Jones]

Quick Find Code: 74-75-817-59124146

Well, they released a public topic about it, and actually state their policy. What worries me is that they see the GE as a Stock Market - it seems that they don't realized that when, say, Prayer Potions are merchanted, it doesn't just affect those who buy potions to merchant - it affects everyone who wishes to use prayer potions. Frankly, that type of thinking worries me.

[Lady Lisa]

And clans like SC claymates are the problem.....

[arigold16]

Quick Find Code: 74-75-817-59124146

Well, they released a public topic about it, and actually state their policy. What worries me is that they see the GE as a Stock Market - it seems that they don't realized that when, say, Prayer Potions are merchanted, it doesn't just affect those who buy potions to merchant - it affects everyone who wishes to use prayer potions. Frankly, that type of thinking worries me.

I think mercantile exchange would have been a better comparison than stock exchange, but most people wouldn't understand the distinction and stock exchange is close enough for their purposes.

[FinsToTheLeft]

I would like to see a reasonable solution to merchant clans.

[aximili e i]

[

I think mercantile exchange would have been a better comparison than stock exchange, but most people wouldn't understand the distinction and stock exchange is close enough for their purposes.

I would like to see a reasonable solution to merchant clans.

This is an effective way to combat merchant clans if only they post this on the front page and not hidden in the forums... and I think the use of phrase "stock market" makes more sense then mercantile as more people are familiar with stock exchange then an mercantile exchange...and the principles(sp) between the two are basically the same.

[FinsToTheLeft]

[

I think mercantile exchange would have been a better comparison than stock exchange, but most people wouldn't understand the distinction and stock exchange is close enough for their purposes.

I would like to see a reasonable solution to merchant clans.

This is an effective way to combat merchant clans if only they post this on the front page and not hidden in the forums... and I think the use of phrase "stock market" makes more sense then mercantile as more people are familiar with stock exchange then an mercantile exchange...and the principles(sp) between the two are basically the same.

Jagex saying that merchant clans might take your money would be effective? On the main page, where it'd be gone in a few weeks and even then many players wouldn't have read it? I don't see how that would significantly alter the status quo.

[aximili e i]

[

I think mercantile exchange would have been a better comparison than stock exchange, but most people wouldn't understand the distinction and stock exchange is close enough for their purposes.

I would like to see a reasonable solution to merchant clans.

This is an effective way to combat merchant clans if only they post this on the front page and not hidden in the forums... and I think the use of phrase "stock market" makes more sense then mercantile as more people are familiar with stock exchange then an mercantile exchange...and the principles(sp) between the two are basically the same.

Jagex saying that merchant clans might take your money would be effective? On the main page, where it'd be gone in a few weeks and even then many players wouldn't have read it? I don't see how that would significantly alter the status quo.

The most effective way to combat this is education and yes there is a down side to doing that over a game update...

[FinsToTheLeft]

If education is the way to do it, then a front page notice is hardly going to educate. Like with teen sex, education can be a good preventant. But people are still going to do it, and there are enough people who will still do participate in merch clans that it will continue to be a major problem.

[arigold16]

I do think there are some easy steps to take to educate people on this. First would be to clearly state in a very public way (more public than the forums) that organized price manipulation by merchant clans is against the rules and that it will be punishable by perm bannings (they should post a couple follow ups to this over the following week or two). Second, close any known clan chats and lock any threads relating to manipulation. Third, start banning the leaders of any clans that didn't stop after the rules had been clarified. Fourth, publicly announce that x number of players have been perm banned for manipulating prices, they had played y amount of years, and they owned z amount of gp worth in items.

If you do all that, I would guess the bulk of regular players would be scared away. People are inherently risk averse... most players wouldn't cheat if it was obvious that it was cheating and there is a real chance of getting caught.

[Qeltar]

Price manipulation is made possibly by lack of liquidity. Liquidity is reduced by price controls.

All of this mess was foreseen by myself and a handful of others the day the GE was released.

If they want to fix it, they already should know how.

[Sir Valimont]

This is a direct quote from that thread on the RSOF:

The Grand Exchange was consciously designed to emulate a real-life stock market in many ways. One of the most important principles is that an item is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. This is why we chose to make it possible for GE prices to rise and fall, rather than simply fixing them at static amounts.

Are they really, truly, this stupid? Do they really, truly have their heads so far up their posteriors that they don't realize the middle sentence, being true, invalidates 90% of the actual mechanics of the GE? Do they not realize that the third sentence is a crock?

This is akin to having a justice system where you can get a trial by jury, but it costs $100,000 up front. If you can't afford it, you are summarily executed. It would be well and good to say: "One of the most important principles is that in a system of justice, everyone is innocent until proven guilty by a jury of his or her peers" but the fact is that most people wouldn't ever get that treatment. Similarly, if "one of the most important principles" is that items' values are determined by people's willingness to pay certain prices, then why the hell can't I pay what I want to pay for an item? Or did this idiot of a mod mean to say that "an item is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it IF that amount happens to fall within the price restrictions of the utterly-devoid-of-economic-principles idiot-fest that is the GE?"

It's downright insulting that someone wants to preach marketing mechanics to kids when he's apparently not qualified to form paragraphs of more than three coherent sentences. I am almost sorry I stopped wasting $5 a month only because I can't berate this imbecile somewhere where he can read it.

[Mak 1027]

I am almost sorry I stopped wasting $5 a month only because I can't berate this imbecile somewhere where he can read it.

?? I thought free players were now allowed to post on the RSOF.

[Sir Valimont]

I am almost sorry I stopped wasting $5 a month only because I can't berate this imbecile somewhere where he can read it.

?? I thought free players were now allowed to post on the RSOF.

Ah perhaps so. Given that I've not been a free player in years and that I've posted to the RSOF 3 times or so in 2009, I wouldn't know ... but I will check it out when I have a few moments. Thanks for the tip.

[sk3l3t0r711]

let us know when you post ...I want to read it !!

[Mak 1027]

let us know when you post ...I want to read it !!

me too!!! nothing more entertaining than a good verbal spanking!

[FinsToTheLeft]

How specifically would you change the GE q?

And yes, F2P can post on the RSOF provided they have a certain amount of experience (Sir V could)

[arigold16]

How specifically would you change the GE q?

A good question - it is much easier to point to a problem than it is to offer a solution. I think Q is still right to point to the problem though...

I recall a while back someone posted a quote where Andrew said they were working to relax the price controls. Not sure how hard it would be to do a simple change from 5% to 10% or whatever, so maybe they are working to create a new framework entirely?

[Qeltar]

Well I've answered the question many times in the past. Mostly can't be bothered repeating it all.

It mainly involves making the GE actually resemble a stock market rather than just *claiming* it does when we all know it does not.

I understand that Jagex wants prices to be "stable", but the price controls have had the opposite effect -- which again is exactly what those of us who understand economics knew would happen.

[wkw427]

How to Fix the Grand Exchange
A wiki427 guide
Step 1: Make prices of everything update once an hour

Credits: Wiki427

[Doomedrusher]

How to Fix the Grand Exchange
A wiki427 guide
Step 1: Make prices of everything update once an hour

Credits: Wiki427

Step 2: Watch your "Buy at max" and "Sell at min" offers fail catastrophically because it updates and kicks you out of the competition. GE campers with no lives gain the upper hand.
Step 3: Watch merchant clans raise prices in a matter of hours, instead of days. Prices will be so artificially inflated that only shop-tied items will remain stable. Each swig of prayer potion is now worth 200k.
Step 4: Wkw curses under breath for suggesting this idea.